The BJJ Mindset | From the Mat to the Bottle

BJJ Mindset

Interview with Roosevelt Sousa - On the Mental Side of Jiu-Jitsu

on Aug 11 2026

Roosevelt Sousa got heel hooked by Gordon Ryan in about ten seconds. His reaction was not to avoid leg locks for the rest of his career. He went home, found the best leg lockers in his gym, and put his own foot up as the price of learning. That instinct, more than any technique, is the thing worth stealing from him. Roosevelt is a gi and no-gi black belt world champion, an ADCC Worlds bronze medalist, and the head coach at Sanctum Jiu-Jitsu in Miami. He is competing in Poland this September. Caleb sat down with him for about 25 minutes, and while we came in expecting to talk technique, almost the entire conversation ended up being about the mind. Full video below, and the complete transcript is at the bottom of this page. He started at 21, which he was told was too late Roosevelt grew up poor in a small city in Brazil, in a neighborhood his mother considered dangerous enough that she gave him an ultimatum: find a job or find a sport, but get off the street. He picked volleyball because it was free and he was tall. He was chasing a professional career in it when a purple belt at his volleyball club talked him into trying jiu-jitsu. He walked into the room, saw a group of overweight masters division brown and black belts, and decided he was in far better shape than any of them. An hour later he could barely move and was close to throwing up. Three months after that he entered a local competition as a white belt knowing essentially one thing, how to close his guard, and won it. He went home and told his mother he was quitting volleyball. He was 21. She thought he had lost his mind. Black belt came six years later. It should have been five, but the gyms closed during the pandemic. The part he keeps coming back to is that he never believed it was possible on his own. He was competing against blue and purple belts who had started at seven or ten years old, and the insecurity about his age sat in the back of his head the entire time. What moved him past it was the room he was standing in. The advice: get around people who are hungrier than you Asked for the single piece of advice he would give someone trying to improve fast, Roosevelt did not talk about mat time or drilling or a system. He said to surround yourself with people who are better than you, and then immediately redefined "better." He does not mean higher belts. He means people who think differently than you do, who want more than you want, who are hungry. People who have something to teach you and a life you find interesting. He watched his professor and the black belts around him, decided their lives were worth having, and that belief did the work his own confidence could not. The flip side is the warning. It has never been easier to end up surrounded by people who only want to have fun and live in the moment. Roosevelt is careful not to make that sound like a moral failing, but he is direct about the cost: if you want to get better, your training partners and your friends have to want something too. Everyone has the same technique now, so the mind is the separator This is the most useful thing he said, and it came out almost as an aside. His view is that after the Gordon Ryan era, everyone is basically studying jiu-jitsu the same way. The instructionals, the systems, the approach to breaking down positions, all of it has converged. Technically, at the top, the gap has narrowed. So what decides big competitions is who shows up mentally prepared and who makes better decisions when both people are exhausted. He came to this because the mental side was wrecking him. He spoke with a therapist about it and could not get rid of it that way. What he eventually worked out is that he had been training only half of what a competitor needs to train. The system he built has three pieces. Breath work, to clear the intrusive thoughts The everyday version is unglamorous. He has a hard day in the room, he is tired, the voice in his head says he does not want to do this anymore. Those thoughts drain him before the next round starts. So he breathes, deliberately, until his head is clear enough to go again. He treats training days as the reps for competition days, because a skill you have only used under low pressure will not be there under high pressure. Being present, which is a routine problem Roosevelt describes a scenario every competitor recognizes. You get to Worlds, you look at the bracket, you see the guy you have to fight and how big he is and what he has won. Then you go to warm up, except you are not really warming up. You are running the fight in your head over and over. By the time you walk to the mat you are already spent, and you panic, and you gas. His fix is a routine where each piece gets your full attention. Warming up means warming up and nothing else. Then you finish the warmup and you go fight, and you arrive there fresh instead of already used up. He is honest that this is not something you learn overnight. It is discipline, and it gets easier the longer you practice it, until the anxiety is something you can steer. Conserving mental energy, because decisions win matches He is blunt about this one. Do not scroll your phone before you compete. Do not try to solve a problem from work. Do not get into an argument with your partner. Every one of those things spends energy you are going to need. His reasoning is specific rather than vague. He has won gi matches in the final seconds, and he won them on decision making, not on being fresher or stronger. Late in a hard match, when the grips are gone and you are tired, the question is whether you can still recognize where you are and choose the right thing. That only happens if you arrive sharp. Everything else waits until after the competition. Jiu-jitsu is software, and there is always an update Roosevelt spent his early years ripping straight foot locks. He was athletic, it worked, and he did it without much technique. Then he hit black belt and found that people would let their foot break before they tapped. He stopped using it. Then he questioned the decision, because questioning his own decisions is what he does. Maybe the technique was fine and he was the problem. Maybe he needed more hours and better research. His phrase for it is that jiu-jitsu is like software, always updating, always changing. The Gordon Ryan match settled it. Ten seconds, heel hooked, and a very clear picture of what was missing. He went back to his gym, sought out the best leg lockers there, and rebuilt that part of his game around heel hooks instead of straight foot locks. At the ADCC Miami Open he finished his last match with an inside heel hook. He is 13 years in, a world champion, and he still takes notes from purple belts and blue belts. His explanation is that learning fires the same part of the brain as pleasure and joy. The moment someone who has been beating you for months stops being able to beat you is, in his words, amazing. That is the whole reason people stay. What to take to the gym this week Roosevelt trains full time and competes at the highest level in the sport. Most of us do not. The parts of this that transfer anyway: Look at who you are training next to. If nobody in your regular group wants anything, that is the thing to fix first, before your guard retention. Pick one thing you quit because it stopped working, and ask whether you quit too early. On competition day, put the phone away and leave every unresolved conversation for tomorrow. When your head is loud in the middle of a hard session, breathe on purpose before the next round instead of just enduring it. The last question Caleb asked him was whether he prefers liquid or bar soap after training. Liquid, without hesitation. Bar soap slips out of his hands, and he is a big guy. He wants to wash and be ready to go. We build our body wash for exactly that moment, the one right after you get off the mats. Shop Kimura Soap Co. Full transcript Lightly edited for clarity. Roosevelt speaks English as a second language, and we have cleaned up the transcription without changing what he said. Caleb (0:01): What's up guys, Caleb with Kimura Soap here. I had the chance to interview Roosevelt Sousa. He's the head coach at Sanctum Jiu-Jitsu in Miami, Florida. He's a gi and no-gi black belt world champion, he's a bronze medalist at ADCC Worlds, and he's looking to take gold in Poland this September. So Kimura Soap wishes you good luck. What got you to start training jiu-jitsu? What's your origin story with the sport? Roosevelt (0:26): Well, I started training jiu-jitsu almost 13 years ago in Brazil, in a very small city, a very small school. I was trying to become a professional beach volleyball player. I come from a very poor background and we didn't have a lot of options there, so I hopped into the sport that I had available. I was a tall guy, a tall kid, and I decided to try any sport that I could start training for free, and that's how I got into volleyball back then. Roosevelt (1:05): At volleyball I met this guy, actually he's one of the legends in the sport, and he used to train jiu-jitsu for fun. He was a purple belt back then, and one day he told me, you should try jiu-jitsu. And I was like, man, you're crazy. I don't even know what that means. This must be some type of crazy martial art, I'm not going to do that. I love volleyball, I want to do this for my life. But somehow he convinced me, and that same day I was there on the mat. Roosevelt (1:30): I look over and I see all these master three, master four, overweight brown belts and black belts, and I told myself, those guys are not going to do anything with me, man. I'm super in shape. This is not legit. One hour later I was almost throwing up. I could barely move my body. Honestly, I humbled myself, and I decided to start training at least once a week, because I thought, I better learn this so nobody kicks my ass in the street. Roosevelt (2:13): Three months later I was already thinking about competing. We had this small competition in my town, and I asked my coach, can I do it? And he said, yeah sure, try. I was a white belt and I barely knew any moves. The only thing I remember I had learned was how to close my guard, and I was very bad. I don't know how, but I won this competition, and it was one of the best feelings of my life. Roosevelt (2:53): Remember, I was doing volleyball and jiu-jitsu at the same time, and like I said, I was trying to become professional. That was so hard, way harder than jiu-jitsu. So after this tournament I decided to move on to jiu-jitsu. I got home and I told my mom, mom, I want to do jiu-jitsu. And she thought I was getting crazy, because I had dedicated so much time to volleyball, and I was 21. It was crazy, irresponsible back then. Just give jiu-jitsu a chance, I'll prove to you it's a different, amazing sport. I feel like I belong to it. And she gave me a chance. So I dove right into training, and it was the best decision of my life. Caleb (3:57): Wow, that's incredible, man. And you got your black belt in six years, eh? Roosevelt (4:02): Yes, I got it in six years. I was supposed to get it in five years, but then during the pandemic we all stopped training. I got my black belt in 2021 or 2022, I don't remember exactly. I was supposed to get it in 2020, but then the pandemic happened. So yeah, six years of hard work. Caleb (4:32): Wow, that's incredible. As soon as you had that first tournament you were just full on dedicated. Roosevelt (4:37): Yes, man. Because I came from a team sport, where most of the time you need your team to perform in order for you to perform as well, in order for you to get results. In jiu-jitsu it's all on you. If you do something wrong, you're responsible for that, and the other way around too. Somehow I felt like I belonged to this sport. I felt like I'm a fighter, and that was something very unique. Roosevelt (5:15): It's hard to explain, because honestly I had no role model in my family. I never had that. My parents, like I said, we came from a very humble financial situation, so we were mostly just surviving. And where I was raised, it's such a dangerous neighborhood, all my neighbors were always getting in trouble. My mom was like, I don't want you on the streets, go find something to do, either a job or a sport. I had always been very competitive. Like most kids in Brazil, we want to become soccer players, we play soccer everywhere, and I was playing street soccer and getting myself in trouble. And my mom told me, look, it's over, find something to do, do sports, whatever. And that was it. This amazing sport definitely changed my life. Caleb (6:22): That's incredible, man. Do you have any advice that you learned from getting your black belt in such a condensed period of time? What would be the number one piece of advice you'd give to somebody looking to achieve things in this sport? Roosevelt (6:39): Man, honestly, you have to be surrounded by people who are better than you first. And when I say better, I mean people who think differently, who are hungry, who are smarter than you, who want more than you. They think differently than you. They have something to teach you. That's what I was doing when I started training. I was surrounding myself with my professor and the other black belts, and I thought they were so cool. They had cool lives, they had cool histories. I was inspired by them all the time, and that actually made me believe that I could achieve the black belt one day. Roosevelt (7:24): Even at such an old age, you know. Most of the kids I was competing against as a blue belt and purple belt back in Brazil were young. They started training when they were 10 or seven, whatever. I have kids now, I'm a coach, I have kids that start training at four. So of course I always had that insecurity in the back of my head, thinking, oh, I'm too old, I would never learn this. But because of the people I had around me, they made me believe that I could become good, or potentially compete, and not even become a world champ like I am now, but at least get something out of it. Roosevelt (8:11): Honestly, when I first started I never thought about becoming this world champion that I am now, one of the best in the world. I was just trying to get better and become a good person. That's how I actually got very lucky, because my professor was a very good coach. He's not famous or anything, but he's responsible for my improvement. Roosevelt (8:41): So if I can give advice, it's that today it's so easy for you to get distracted and get yourself around people who only want to have fun, who want to live the moment. But I think, especially if you're young, you should surround yourself with people who actually think differently, who want something in their life, who want to be the best, who want to improve and keep improving. And that goes not only for jiu-jitsu, for everything in life. Caleb (9:14): That's really good advice, man. Like you said, you're the head coach at Sanctum Jiu-Jitsu in Miami, Florida. How's the room looking? Are there some good up and comers we should be keeping our eyes out for there? Roosevelt (9:29): Yeah. We are mainly focused on kids. We have a very solid kids program, and we're one of the few schools here in Florida with competition focused training. We have a group of kids that are very talented. Not only talented, but they have the support of their family. They're always competing. We have Cris Medina, he's eight years old, he just started training, he's a grey and black belt, and he's been winning every single competition. Roosevelt (10:02): If you ask him what he's going to do when he's about to fight, he knows exactly what he's going to do. He says, I go for the submission, and if that doesn't work, I'm going to win somehow. He's very smart, very talented, such a hard worker, even though he's so young. I get inspired by my kids every single day. It's incredible to see them with such a good mentality even though they're so young. So I'm very happy to be there pushing them every day. Roosevelt (10:41): All my life I've been dedicated to fighting, and as a black belt I became a coach, and this is something amazing. I never thought I'd be a jiu-jitsu coach, especially for kids. But here I am. I believe my wife brought me here, and it's a journey of learning and teaching at the same time, and I'm really enjoying it. Caleb (11:10): That's super cool. What do you think it is about the Miami scene that produces so many good grapplers? Everybody always talks about Austin and San Diego and New York, but Miami is becoming a hotbed of its own, eh? Roosevelt (11:23): Bro, honestly, I have to be very careful how I say this, because I feel like it's something with the Latinos, man. The Latinos have the hot blood. They like to fight. We don't like to lose. Brazilians, and we have a lot of South American people here, Cuba, Venezuela, everywhere. I believe South American people are hard workers, but there's something that makes them go after it. They work hard. And if you look at every single big school here in Miami, when you see who's the coach, who's the best fighter, they're Latinos. Caleb (12:28): What are some training habits or rituals that you've found are unique to you, or that somebody's shown you throughout the years, that you really like to implement in getting ready for tournaments or just for training? Roosevelt (12:43): That's a great question. Honestly, I'm not a nerd in jiu-jitsu, but I try to find ways to understand myself better. When we learn something new we try to do research, we study, we watch video instructionals. But I try to understand myself. I try to see how my body responds to a specific type of training or a specific type of situation. Roosevelt (13:22): The last few years, something that was really bothering me was the mental aspect of fighting. That was taking away my focus and draining my mental energy. I spoke with a therapist and I could never get rid of it. So I realized that my problem was not only the physicality, it was not just the training, it was not just being in a competition environment. I had to train my mind to get ready for competition. Roosevelt (14:02): I was like, okay, I've identified that I have to train my mind, but how do I train my mind? There are a few basic things that a lot of people are talking about right now, which require a lot of discipline for you to be able to understand and make work smoothly and automatically. Roosevelt (14:23): For example, breath work. Why do I do breath work? Breath work helps me clear my mind. For example, if I'm in the training room and I have a hard day, I'm tired, I don't want to do this anymore, I have to reset my mind somehow. How do I get out of that state of intrusive thoughts that bother me and drain my mental energy? Simple. Doing breath work. I do a lot of breath work, and my mind gets ready for the next round or whatever I have to do in training. And this is how I prepare for competition. Roosevelt (15:02): Another thing, I call this being present. Imagine yourself going to a competition, Worlds for example. You get there and you see the bracket, you see all the guys you're fighting against, and you go to the warm up area, and in your head you're like, oh my god, I've got to fight this guy, he looks so big, he's so good, he's a champ. Instead of thinking about what you're supposed to do in the moment, which is warming up, you're draining your energy. By the time you're walking to the mat you're so drained that you panic, you don't know what to do, you get tired. Roosevelt (15:42): Being present means you have to have a routine for competition, for training, and whatever you do in this routine, you have to be present and focused on what you're doing. If you have to warm up, focus on the warm up. Do your warm up, don't think about anything else. Because when you go to the next step, when you finish the warm up and go to fight, you're going to be fresh and focused. Your mind's going to be fresh. You're going to know, okay, now I'm going to fight. Roosevelt (16:14): Of course, it's not something that you learn overnight. That takes time. Like I said, it's a discipline, you have to constantly train yourself for that. But once you're used to it, it becomes easier and easier to do, and you control your anxiety, you control anything that goes through your mind during that moment. So that's the second thing I do. Roosevelt (16:38): And the third thing is stocking your mental energy. Mental energy is important for decision making. A lot of the time, if you watch my fights from Worlds, no gi and especially gi, I won on the last second, because it was more of a decision making thing. When I was there, even if I'm tired, even if I don't feel my grips anymore, I have to be able to make the right decision. That's only going to happen when you're sharp and focused and you can understand what's going on in the moment. Okay, I'm fighting, I'm tired, I've been here before. I need to be able to make good decisions. Roosevelt (17:30): How do I do that? Stocking mental energy. How do you stock mental energy before the match? You don't scroll. You don't keep scrolling your phone trying to distract yourself, because that's just going to drain your mental energy. I don't try to solve a problem from work. I don't argue with my girlfriend before the fight. I leave all my problems. Everything I have to do, we deal with that after competition. But before, you have to stock mental energy. Does that make sense? Caleb (17:56): Yeah, that's really well said. Roosevelt (18:03): Those are the things I'm doing. Because honestly, if we talk about jiu-jitsu itself technically, I believe everybody's kind of doing the same thing right now. I think after the Gordon Ryan era, he kind of brought in this mindset of how you study for jiu-jitsu, how we should all think about jiu-jitsu. I think everybody's kind of doing the same thing now. So I think what's actually going to make the difference when it comes to big competitions and all the big names is who's ready there, who's more focused, who's mentally prepared for the decision making, and eventually gets the good results. Caleb (18:46): Yeah, that's amazing. Are you a Christian, do you mind me asking? I see the cross on your shirt. Roosevelt (18:52): Yeah, I'm Christian. Caleb (18:55): Super cool. That kind of plays into it. My brother and I were having a conversation once, and I was raised Christian as a Baptist, and he was saying that a Hebrew word for God is Yahweh, and Yahweh translates to I am. Just being present, that is being like God. Like what you're saying there. Roosevelt (19:19): Yeah, without faith we can't do anything. Nothing makes sense. You work, you make money, you buy things, you achieve things, but then what? What else? What is the point of it? Life cannot just be all about that. I think if you don't have faith, if you don't believe, and this is not religion, this is life, if you don't have something to believe in, to look up to, like God, Jesus Christ, you're not going to find meaning for life, you know what I mean? Caleb (20:02): I've just got one or two more questions, I don't want to take up too much of your time. As a black belt, are there any techniques that you saw or learned early on in your career that you stopped using and have recently come back to? And if so, what were those techniques and why? Roosevelt (20:22): When I first started training jiu-jitsu I learned how to do straight foot locks. I kept doing this because I'm pretty athletic, I've always been very athletic, and it helped a lot ripping people's feet off, and I was doing that as a white belt. No technique, just ripping feet off. As I started getting more experience and learning more, I started adjusting that. But when I got to black belt, I was going for everybody's feet, and they would let me break it, they would never tap. So I realized that was just a waste of energy, because nobody would tap for that. So I stopped. Roosevelt (21:09): And then honestly I was like, man, why? I like to question every decision I make, and I question my own thoughts. So I was like, why stop it? No, this is a good technique. Maybe I just need to get better. Maybe I need to spend more hours, I need to do more research, because jiu-jitsu is like software. There's always an update. There's always something changing, there's always something coming out. So I started restudying again and doing more research and getting better. Roosevelt (21:44): Also, after my fight against Gordon Ryan, where I got heel hooked in like 10 seconds, I realized, man, that is something that I'm missing and I need to get better at it. So I went back home, I started working, putting my foot at risk. I started training with the best leg lockers from the gym, and I started doing that again. My last fight now at the Miami Open, I finished the ADCC Miami Open with a heel hook, inside heel hook. So I just shifted a little bit from the straight foot lock to heel hooks. It's been working pretty well. Caleb (22:24): That's really cool to hear, man. It's super cool to hear how much of a lifetime learner you are too. You're always questioning, always trying to improve. You're not just accepting where you're at now and saying this is where you're at. You're looking to get better. Roosevelt (22:37): Yeah, man. The best thing about jiu-jitsu, and I believe that's the reason why people do jiu-jitsu, is because we're always learning. Learning is the most enjoyable thing that we go through in our mind. I believe it's responsible for the same part of our brain that's responsible for pleasure and joy. When you learn something new, when you always get in trouble with some specific position and you can never get out of it, or that person always kicks your butt, and then one day somehow you learn something that you can actually fight back with against that person, it's so amazing, right? Roosevelt (23:15): So I believe learning is something that you should not limit yourself on. Even being a black belt, I learn from purple belts and blue belts. I'm always trying to learn, and that's the fun part about jiu-jitsu. Caleb (23:30): That's a wonderful mindset, eh? Last question I have for you. After training, do you prefer liquid or bar soap? Roosevelt (23:43): Liquid. I mean, because it's so easy. I feel like it's easier. Bar soap, I feel like it's, how can I say this, man? This is a good question though. I prefer liquid. It's easy for me, because I'm a big guy, so for me it's just easier. Bar soap keeps falling off your hands all the time, it slips out of your hands. Liquid, you just go wash yourself and that's it. Ready to go. Caleb (24:29): Ready to go. That's perfect, man. I really appreciate your time. I appreciate being able to talk to you and I wanted to thank you. You're a pioneer in this sport. I've only been doing it for five years, but I'm super passionate about it, I want to see it keep growing, and because of people like you it's grown a lot. So thank you, sir. Roosevelt (24:49): Thank you for the interview, thank you for your time. Caleb (24:56): All right, I appreciate it. Have a safe drive.

#athlete interview

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on Aug 03 2026

Everybody wants to know how a professional trains. Fewer people ask what it takes to still be doing it in ten years. Caleb Baers sat down with Miranda Maverick to ask both. The conversation runs long and covers ground most athlete interviews skip. What they covered How she actually structures her training Miranda walks through her methodology, including how she decides what a given session is for before she steps on the mat. Most of it is less dramatic than people expect. That is the point. Where mental discipline gets built Discipline does not show up on the days you feel good. Miranda talks about building it in the ordinary weeks, when nothing about the work is interesting and nobody is watching. The health investments she treats as non-negotiable This is the section worth sitting through. A long career in combat sports runs on the maintenance nobody films: recovery, sleep, and taking care of your skin after every session. Miranda is direct about what she spends time and money on, and why. Why we made this Kimura Soap Co. was built around one moment in the training day. The shower after class. Christian Simmerling started carrying his own soap to the academy in 2018 because he did not trust what was in the dispenser, and Kimura came out of that. Conversations like this one are the same idea from a different angle. The athletes who last are the ones who take the unglamorous part seriously. Kimura is a plant-based, head-to-toe body wash made for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu athletes. Handmade in Vermont in small batches, certified to USDA Organic Standards by VOF, with the full ingredient list printed on every bottle. Read the ingredient list, then decide. Shop the 16 oz + 3 oz combo → Transcript 0:00 CB: All right, perfect. Yeah, nice to meet you, Miranda. Um, yeah, I really appreciate you uh coming on to just uh talk a little bit and um I was hoping to get some uh I've got some questions regarding like mindset around fighting and competing and whatnot um that I'd love to get your opinion on. To start real quick — quick introduction. 0:22 CB: Miranda Maverick. Um, a UFC record of 17 and six. And, uh, yeah. Anything you want to add to that? 0:30 MM: Uh, not really. I'm currently ranked. You guys want to go check out the UFC 6 video game? I'm pretty excited to be in that now as well. So, that's been probably the big highlight of the month. 0:40 CB: That's sick. That's super cool. And you also have a master's degree in psychology. 0:44 MM: Hey, I do. Industrial psychology with a focus in data analytics. 0:49 CB: Wow, that's crazy. Does that psychology background — that's probably played a large role in your fight career as well? 0:58 MM: Hey, you know, I don't really know. I mean, I think I've always been interested in human psychology and being able to kind of understand people's minds. I think if anything, it's kind of helped strengthen mine knowing that a lot of our thoughts and feelings are just reactions, you know, instead of getting into my feelings. I've been a very logical person my entire life. And maybe the degree helped me with that a little bit, but I would almost say the other way around. You know, the fight game really helps you with toughness and being able to endure a lot. And uh grad school is not the easiest thing for me, especially while I was still fighting and working full-time as I went through it all. 1:31 CB: Yeah, that's crazy. That's uh super impressive as well. A well accomplished woman for sure. 1:35 MM: Appreciate it. 1:37 CB: All right. Yeah, we'll get into the questions here. Uh, question number one: why did you start training? 1:42 MM: Um, well, jiu-jitsu I started training because I just loved it. My dad had always uh wrestled around with us at home and we would watch the UFC, pause it, and like actually learn moves. We weren't just like goofing around. I knew how to armbar people and choke and all that kind of stuff and the basics before I went and formally trained. And then when I turned 16, I came to him and I was like, you know, Dad, I would really like to go formally train at a gym. And we lived about an hour and 15 minutes away from the closest gym, which was in Springfield, Missouri. And he was like, "All right, if you can find a way to pay for it, I fully support you." You know, cuz I was like, I want to do something practical that I can know how to defend myself for college, etc. 2:22 MM: And I started going to that gym and within two weeks, I was like, you know what, I want to compete. And um I fell in love with it. I don't know how else to say it. You know, I started grappling with men that were way bigger than me and doing very well as a 16-year-old female. And my first competition in the state of Missouri, they didn't have hardly any females, right? So, I did the juvenile division, which was under 18. I did the women's division, which had two other people in it, I think, and I did the men's division all at the same time. And I ended up placing third in the men's division at 16 years old. And I was like, "Okay, I think I'm going to try to go make something out of this." 2:54 MM: And then my coaches were very encouraging after that and they were like, "You should try fighting, you know, when you turn 18." And I was like, "No, I don't really want punched in the face, you know." And they were like, "Well, you never know. I think you'd have a good future in it." And I eventually convinced myself that I'd give it a try, and if I won and I liked it, I'd go be the best I could be. And I won. 3:18 CB: So that's incredible. That's incredible. So safe to say you were hooked from day one pretty much. 3:25 MM: Oh, yeah. I love jiu-jitsu. I always tell people, you know, if I hear about them saying like, I wanted to get my grandkid in this or my child in this, I'm like, jiu-jitsu — it's the only one uh that I think is practical, especially for females. Um, like anytime there's self-defense courses and they're not on the ground, I'm like, well, you just wasted your time, you know? So, uh, yeah, huge advocate, huge fan, and obviously love it in general. 3:47 CB: That's super cool. That's super cool. Yeah. Um, question number two: how much of winning in the UFC happens before you step into the cage? 3:57 MM: Um, I would say 95% of it. You know, obviously there's the — you have to show up and do it and fight through the adrenaline aspect of it. There's a lot of fighters out there that train very well and just don't perform as well in the octagon. So, there's definitely an aspect once you step in there, but a lot of it's through training camp. You know, it's have you prepared for this opponent correctly? Have you been showing up and training every day? Have you been dieting and getting your nutrition on point to where you can go, you know, three, five rounds as hard as you can, as hard as you want? Um, and have you prepared for the worst case scenarios? You know, cuz of course we have a game plan when we go in there, but all it takes is getting rocked once or getting stuck in a submission you didn't expect to, or, you know, not winning as easily, etc., etc. Um, so yeah, I'd say like 95% for sure beforehand. Not to mention the weight cut. You know, that's a whole another fight in itself before you step into that octagon. If it goes well, usually you're on a good roll. 4:51 CB: There you go. There you go. Um, and then yeah, with that, uh, would you say that fighting is a job where it's a lifestyle, or is fighting, you know, a training camp? 5:06 MM: No. 100%. And if you're just doing a training camp, then you're going to end up — I consider it like you're preparing yourself to get hurt. Like actually hurt. You know, this isn't basketball. This isn't baseball. This isn't like, oh, my team won, oh, my team lost. You know, you just gave yourself a broken orbital or you broke your arm or, you know, whatever happened, or you lost a fight and got your butt kicked, or you ruined the trajectory of your future by losing a fight, you know. And at the end of the day, that's a lot of pressure to have every time you go into a fight, but it's just the truth of it. 5:36 MM: I've always said, like, if I have an M&M during camp, I'm like, well, that could have ruined it. Now I might lose a fight, you know? And of course, there's a balance to that, right? I use the M&M one as a joke because I love M&M's and I usually literally have like one M&M a day. It's like my weird thing that I do. Um, but I'm like, all it takes is like not being balanced out right, not having the right mental aspect, and then you go into a fight and you lose your future potentially — especially if you're not already in the UFC. You know, you're working your way up. For men especially, it's even harder. Like if you don't have a perfect record, you don't have the right connections, all this stuff, you may never get there. 6:14 CB: Yeah, there's worse vices to have than M&M's. I could be good. Um, all right, perfect. Yeah. Uh, question number four — um, or sorry, number three. This will be one I want to hear your opinion on. What's the difference between confidence and ego in fighting? 6:30 MM: Oh man. Um, you know, I think that they do play into each other. You know, you go back to that psychology aspect. At the end of the day, it's like saying you're a narcissist for taking care of yourself. You know, it's like you have to have ego to be confident and you have to be confident to have an ego in some aspect or another. However, there's like the confidence to where you're like, I know what's at stake, I know the risk, and I know the respectfulness of the sport. Like, you should always go in knowing anything could happen. You should always go in respecting your opponent in some degree. Even if you don't respect them as people — which I've had that kind of opponent before — you should respect their skills and what they bring to the sport and what they bring to you, which is basically a way to make a living by fighting this other person, right? 7:10 MM: Um, where ego is just like, I'm going to go in there. Usually, ego is not always tied to discipline, where confidence is often tied to discipline and having worked your way to that point. Where ego, you know, you have the big guys that walk into a gym going, I can fight anybody, I'm a big dude, and then they go against say me, get their butt kicked, and they never walk back into a gym again and go back out and tell their friends how tough they are. And it's like, then you have the people who walk into the gym, get their butt kicked, and go, wow, I didn't know this was a thing, I guess I don't know how to fight, you know. And then they learn and they grow their confidence and they truly have that ability. And I think confidence is more rooted in truth and reality, whereas ego can be rooted in a false reality. 7:55 CB: That's super insightful. Um, so with that, what would be some advice you have for somebody who is struggling to find that balance between the two? 8:04 MM: Yeah. I mean, train. Get it to where the reality is what it is. You know, you get in there and you find people who beat you, you find people who you can beat, and you find a partner that's on the same level. And if you're getting ready for a fight camp or jiu-jitsu training camp, say for worlds or something, you should never just be beating up every opponent you have. You should always have someone who really humbles you and keeps you on your toes. And then you should have somebody where it's like, ah, they won that round, I won last round. You know, I think it's always important to have those three training partners. And if you're lacking any one of them, I think it absolutely can hurt your confidence, or it creates that ego that makes confidence worthless because it's not real. 8:44 CB: That's — yeah, that's super good. That's super good. You often uh don't hear people um mention that they need to also be building their confidence. So that's cool to hear you talk about that as well. 8:54 MM: Yeah, for sure. You know — sorry, just another note on that. I hear about people who it's like, "Yeah, I went and trained with so and so and then they didn't want to train with me anymore because I beat him on the ground or I beat him at standup." And I'm like, it's just bewildering to me when that happens. I know it happens in all kinds of MMA gyms all the time. You see it everywhere. Um, I think girls are some of the worst with that because we're so used to being the only girl in the gym or the best girl at my level. And it's like when you come across someone that's better than you in even one aspect, it's like, "Oh, who do you think you are?" You know, like this is my territory kind of thing. And I think it really hurts them if they don't allow that to happen. Like I want people in there to be able to hang with me or even beat me in some areas, or I know I'm never going to be able to level up. And if I go against men who just beat me all the time, I always have that in the back of my mind, you know. And that's just the truth of it. Like I'm like, well, you know, they beat me, but I don't know if it was like fair beating me, or if they're just bigger and stronger, or they're just a man, you know. Like, it is what it is, right? 9:53 CB: Going back to what you said with um with women sometimes having that trouble with meeting other women who might be better than them in a certain field — um, what would be your advice for somebody who has attached their personality solely around their skills in combat sports of some kind? 10:12 MM: Yeah, I actually just got done making a post about this, about how fighting for me — I don't know, probably five years ago is when that big switch happened for me. Like right towards the beginning of when I was getting in the UFC and I was like, fight, that's all I want to do. That's my end goal. Yes, I have my plan B, but this is my priority. It's my only priority. Everything else can take a back burner. 10:33 MM: And then when I found out both my retinas were torn, like the day before my UFC debut, it was like the worst day of my life, right? And I was just absolutely heartbroken. Uh, my dreams were shattered. You know, I had like three surgeons that told me I'd never fight again, that it'd be hard to have a child because of the pressure on my eyes and being so young. Like all these things that were just like all of my life aspirations, that I was like, what? Like, I felt like almost suicidal, you know. And at the time it was like two weeks before I had met my current husband — so it was kind of wild, or two weeks after, I should say. So we had just started dating, like had two dates when this all happened. And so not only did I get the call from the UFC — exciting, exciting — but then I had this terrible heartbreak of, and your retinas are torn, you'll never fight again. And he hung through it all, which is kind of our origin story, I guess you'd say, of how we got together. 11:25 MM: But going back to it, I think that ended my ego, you know, because I was like, I have to find something else. Fighting can't be everything for me, you know. And it isn't everything. And I had to just kind of be slapped across the face that it wasn't. And I'm a big believer. I think that God uh tried to nudge me maybe, and maybe I wasn't listening, so he just flattened me, you know. 11:50 MM: And my dad was kind of the one that talked to me, and he was like, "Look, I don't love you any less. Nobody in your family loves you or likes you any less because you'll never fight again." He's like, "I don't care if you go blind entirely. I'll be right there, you know, helping you find a way, describing every single tree and what it looks like," you know. And for me — sorry, I'm going to get emotional. 12:10 CB: No, no. 12:12 MM: It kind of hit home for me, you know. And I was like, wow, like I'm not just this, you know. I'm a daughter. Um, I'm a lot more things now than I was back then, but I was like, I'm a daughter. I'm a student. I'll always be a teacher. There will always be a fighter in life in some aspect. Like none of that will ever go away. And now I get to add onto that resume a wife, a mother, which is one of the most important to me, you know. And I'm still a teacher. I still teach, whether it's martial arts or uh analytics or my children different things to do. And I'll always be an athlete of some aspect. I'll always be a fighter, and I'll always be a competitor, you know. And um at the end of the day, a daughter of God, you know. 12:52 MM: And I think to take that out of that perspective of just being narrowed in on that one thing, it really helps that ego, cuz you're like, who cares? Like, this is this little bitty thing in my life. And not only that, this sport can't last your whole lifetime. I'm not going to fight people when I'm 50, you know? So it's like, okay, this is just like a blink, and no one else gives a — my kids aren't — they might grow up and be like, "My mom was a fighter, that's cool." But it's not like it's going to be their whole life, you know. And in 100 years, nobody's going to even remember my name. So why not make, you know, like advertise the grace of God, advertise the kindness, and whatever aspects in life you want to see live beyond your own legacy. 13:29 CB: That's really incredible. That's inspiring for sure. Yeah. I uh, on a little bit of a side note, I too was actually raised in a homeschool Baptist community, so I come from a faith background as well. I was talking to Roosevelt Sza uh earlier this morning doing an interview with him, and one of the things that he was talking about is in his preparation he's just trying to stay as present and in the moment leading up to tournaments as possible. And with that, I remember a comment my brother had made to me one time talking about how in the Hebrew they call God Yahweh, and Yahweh translates to "I am." You know, being present is being in God's likeness and being closer to God. So with that, what would you say your mental preparation is leading into competition where you're trying to get present? What does that process look like for you? 14:16 MM: Yeah, I mean, kind of connected to the faith aspect. I've always been uh anxious before competitions. I think everybody does, whether we try to act like it or not, you know. Um, I always say the more experience you have, the easier that gets, which is true. But at the end of the day, I always know whatever happens is going to happen. I've prepared as much as I can leading up to that, which you know is from your second question, where it's like do everything you can, have a balance to where mentally you're ready, you're confident, um and you've done everything that you know you could have done to prepare for this — let alone for, you know, two years later. You know, of course you can always gain experience, gain skills, but walk into that knowing you've done all you can. And just give your anxiety to God. Like, at the end of the 30 minutes of rolling or the 15 minutes of fighting, it's going to be over one way or another. It's not like you're going to be this anxious ball of goo for 10 days straight, you know? It's just a moment in time. 15:08 MM: And I try to tell myself — and my coaches kind of laugh at me every time — but we always have our group prayer. And I have a coach who's not even religious, but he still joins in on the prayer, which I respect and I appreciate. And my dad always does it if he's there. If he's not, I pull him up on the phone and he does it on the phone while I'm in the room. And usually other teams will join us, which is just an inspiring, amazing moment. You know, it's one of those times where whether you're five different languages in the room or not, you all kind of join together and just support each other and have that encouragement. 15:41 MM: And I hear people — or you see people in comments — our fans are kind of wild, right? You got the terrible fans, you got the very loyal fans, and you got the ones that love you or hate you the day after you fight, you know? And you have people like, "Why would you pray to God to beat up another human?" And it's like, that's not what the prayer is ever. The prayer is to keep everyone safe, to grant us the abilities he's already given us to show in those moments, and to thank and be grateful more than anything, you know, for the opportunity that we have and for the lifestyle we're allowed to have instead of, you know, working a 9 to 5, or um being injured and not able to show up to that fight. 16:16 MM: And so that aspect of it, like me being able to do that leading up to a fight and throughout camp — giving away that anxiety, giving away all those worries, and making sure that I have everything in my aspect that I can do. And then when something happens, I go, well, that was meant to happen. Like, I did everything I could, that person was better that day. 16:33 MM: Or for instance, my fight with Rose. I hurt my knee in the second round. I didn't have a prior injury. I didn't have anything wrong with that knee. We were prepared as heck for fight camp. I won the first round. I was doing well in the second round. And then it's like, boom, my ACL rips in half from a weird trip that should have never really hurt me, you know. And in my head I'm going, why did this have to happen then? And now I look back and go, what a blessing. I have a son now. Um, I would have never had that son at this point in time if it hadn't been for that injury. You know, I have a business going with my brother that never would have been able to be started because I wouldn't have had the time or effort or energy to put towards it. And I got to move back home with my family, which has been a dream of mine for the last 10 years. Um, so here we are. 17:23 MM: You know, um, I always said God doesn't have any stories of the Bible of people going to heaven walking a trail of flower petals. You know, it's always some kind of trial. 17:36 CB: That's super cool. That's super cool. I love how you've got such a good mindset too. Anytime uh you're good at controlling the story in a positive way for your life, you know — like all our story is, or life is, is what we tell ourselves. And absolutely, you find a really good way to process things. 17:52 MM: Thank you. Thank you. 17:54 CB: Yeah. Um, all right. Question number five. What is one piece of advice you wish someone had given to you before your first professional fight? 18:05 MM: Um, see, so many. But um — find a good team and find experienced people. Like, sometimes you have to invest in yourself before you get paid some money. And although I would go back and tell myself that, I don't know if I would have listened, because I was poor as dirt and I just would take — you know, I was like a grand for a fight. 18:27 MM: Yeah, and I lost way more money walking into the first, you know, three, five fights I had than I gained. You know, it was an investment for my future. And I think I would have told myself like, pay for a nutritionist, Miranda. Like, get out there, learn how to eat healthy, learn how to eat right. Cuz my healthy then was what I thought was healthy, you know? And then I found out what an idiot I was. And I was not surrounded by anyone who had ever cut weight correctly. And so I hurt myself multiple times, um, ended up like passing out in a tub, like having basically a seizure. 19:05 MM: Like, there's a reason I never cut to 115 again. I promised my dad I would never even try again, um, while anywhere near that walkaround weight. And it was all just ignorance. It was all just based around ignorance. Like eating a can of green beans a day, you know, and being like, that was only like 70 calories. And it's like, yes, and you just consumed freaking five tablespoons of salt. And it's like, "Oh, I didn't know sodium mattered," you know. Or put on the garbage bag and run for an hour, that's how we'll cut weight. And it's like, no, that's stupid. Like, it's one thing if you're cutting weight 10 minutes before a wrestling tournament and you need to lose a pound. It's another if you're going to be dehydrating yourself to the extent we are in MMA and you have 24 hours to recover, and instead you just murdered yourself when you're already down a weight, 15 pounds lighter than you'd usually be, you know? 19:53 MM: So just ignorance, and investing in myself um by knowledge, you know, paying people to actually learn what was needed, um whether that be for weight cutting, nutrition, etc. But I'd say most of them were for the weight cut and nutrition — and cross-training more. 20:08 MM: You know, everybody's so against cross-training. You'll find a lot of old school gyms are like, you went to someone else's gym, like how dare you. And it's like, look, if your gym doesn't encourage cross-training when you get to a certain level — especially if you're the only female in your gym and need other training partners — you need to find somewhere else. 20:26 CB: Yeah, that's a super good point. And at the end of the day, it's a service you're paying for. Like, they work for you, not vice versa. 20:33 MM: And I get the loyalty aspect, but at some point it becomes a cult, you know? Like, I'll represent and support my gym and be like, "Yeah, they're great for this and this." But you also have to be willing to let your members learn from other people, go to seminars, things like that. Which I want to be clear, um, my very first gym was not like that. The one I turned pro under was not like that. I would go and cross-train. There just weren't many opportunities in my area with females. But I've been to several gyms in between that have had that aspect and still do. 21:04 CB: Um, what you were talking about too with hiring a nutritionist and proper meal planning and all that stuff, and going back to a fighter being a 365-day-a-year job — how important is it for you that your food is organic? Uh, and your lifestyle in general is organic, including yourself? 21:22 MM: Yeah. Well, you know, organic — I guess people will take that very literally, and I find organic food to be absolute BS, so I could talk on that for a minute, I guess. But you know, I come from the ranching background and farming and all that. 21:34 CB: And we're in Alberta, so we hear you there. 21:37 MM: Yeah. Yeah. So, at the end of the day, organic is just nonsense. Like, it can be raised by minutes out there in the middle of a field and it's not organic because, you know, maybe pesticides were on a neighbor's, or maybe they sprayed water on — like whatever it is. And I'm like, whatever, I don't care as long as it's healthy, pure, raw food. And so I always just say unprocessed rather than organic, you know. Like, um, honey — I raise bees, I make pickles, that's one of my businesses — and I'm like, that stuff's not organic, but it is, you know. I'm just not going to pay for the big certificate. That's what people don't understand. It's a whole government game, the word organic. You know, it's like $2,000 an item to get something with a label organic on it. 22:20 MM: And I had that opportunity when I started out with my pickle business. And I was like, no. Like, no, I'm not doing that. I'm not going to go pay for what's already in it, you know. Like, this is the truth of it. I'm not going to go pay a certificate, you know? Um, so there — on that little rant. Sorry, didn't mean to do that. 22:36 MM: It is important not to have a bunch of processed foods in my system. Eat a bunch of whole foods. Make sure I'm filling up on the right stuff. But again, balance, right? I always have people, "What's your diet? You're so muscular, you're this." And I'm like, I balance. I still eat carbs. Like, I'm not over here eating the keto diet 24/7. And I've tried all of them, okay? I've done pescatarian. I've done vegetarian. I've even done vegan. Um, I've tried the carnivore diet — not with the raw meat, I won't do that, that's disgusting. But I've tried like meat only with very little of anything else. 23:08 MM: Keto was a good diet, but the issue with it is you look really good and then the second you eat a carb, you just kind of blow back up. And it's just because the fluid, the natural fluid we're supposed to have in our body to keep our organs and muscles going, you know? So at the end of the day, I just decided to have a nice balance of protein and carbs. Um, and then just cut sugars and make sure that your fats are limited but healthy fats. Like, when I go into fight week, I only eat protein and fats, and my fats almost equivalent to the protein, you know. And people are like, "What?" And I'm like, yeah, because my organs and stuff still need something to survive on, and even though it's not carbs, they get that storage from the fats. 23:45 MM: Um, and then let's see what else. The other balance aspect — I go out to eat sometimes. I'll eat a bar of ice cream or have a Halo Top, you know. Like, you can have snacks here and there, um, even like once every few days. It's not a big deal until you get down to like the last two weeks of camp, and then you really need to dial in. Um, now that's different for everyone. If your weight's an issue, if you don't stay fit and healthy and train, you know, three, four hours, six days a week, probably going to need to limit that a little bit more. 24:17 CB: There you go. There you go. Of course, there's always room for M&M's. 24:21 MM: Eh, yeah, always room for M&M's. 24:23 CB: There we go. I don't want to take up too much of your time, so I just got one more question. Do you prefer liquid or bar soap? 24:30 MM: Liquid. 24:31 CB: Here we go. Here we go. 24:34 MM: That's funny, because I was actually like, you know, I never asked if they were going to send me bar or liquid, and I'm like, I'll use both, but I definitely prefer liquid. That way if somebody else touches it or there's a hair on it, I don't get like grossed out and just want to like take a knife and shave off half the bar, you know? 24:50 CB: Exactly. There we go. 24:52 MM: Or like, I have my baby girl and she'll get in there and just chew on a bar and I'm like, "Oh, no." Like, don't do that. 24:57 CB: It's just like, it smells good, like I'm going to eat it

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